#93: Cook at Home to Save Your Finances with Julien and Kiersten of Rich and Regular

Julien and Kiersten Saunders are authors of Cashing Out: Win the Wealth Game By Walking Away published by Penguin Random House. They are the creative voices behind the blog richandregular.com, hosts/producers of the award-winning video series, Money on the Table, and hosts of the rich & REGULAR podcast which has earned over 3 million downloads in just two years. Their mission is to inspire better conversations about money.
This episode is focused on eating at home and why learning to cook is one of the best financial investments anyone can make! Julien and Kiersten give their advice and suggestions for learning to cook, how to save time in the kitchen, and how to save time and money on your upcoming holiday meals. Enjoy!

Connect with Julien and Kiersten:
IG: https://www.instagram.com/richandregular/
Podcast: https://richandregular.com/listen/
Website: https://richandregular.com/
Book: https://richandregular.com/cashingout/

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Transcript

[00:00:00] Welcome to the Plan to Eat podcast, where I have conversations about meal planning, food, and wellness. To help you save time in the kitchen, reduce your grocery bill stress less about food. And delight in dinner time.

Roni: Hello and welcome back to the Plan to Eat podcast. Today I have a wonderful interview with Julien and Kiersten Sanders. They are the authors of a book called Cashing Out. They also have a podcast called Rich and Regular. They are personal finance experts and they spend a lot of time talking about money and helping people reimagine their personal finances. So I got to talk to Julien and Kiersten today a little bit about their personal finance philosophy, but mostly we talk about Meal planning and cooking at home and all of the benefits that we get from cooking at home.

Julien has a lot of culinary experience himself, so he has some great tips and advice in [00:01:00] here. I think you guys are really going to enjoy this interview and learn a lot from them. So without further ado, here's my interview with Julien and Kiersten.

Julien Kiersten, thank you so much for joining me on the podcast today.

Kiersten: Thanks for having us. We're excited.

Roni: Yeah, I'm excited too. Let's just get started by having you guys say who you are and what you do.

Julien: All right. I normally let Kiersten do this, but I'll take the first shot. I'm Julien. This is Kiersten. We are married. We live in Atlanta, Georgia, just outside of Atlanta. We are the authors of cashing out when the wealth game by walking away. We're also financial educators, speakers, and podcasters. We have a podcast called the rich and regular podcast, where we explore life at the intersection of money.

Um, food is a big part of what we do. And so this is one of those intersections of our work and our life that we're excited to talk about because we don't get to talk about it enough.

Roni: Yeah, I'm super excited to talk about it. Um, you guys have a [00:02:00] really great podcast that came out earlier in the year about your different gadgets and stuff that you use in the kitchen that I found so fascinating because some of the tips that you guys gave are not things that I would normally think of.

So I think we're going to probably have a lot of those in today's discussion as well. Before we get talking about food though, I'm kind of curious how you got started in the financial space. What made you decide to write a book and to start a podcast about finances?

Kiersten: Yeah. It really sparks from our own life. Julien has always had an interest in personal finance. I have always liked money, but mostly the spending side, not necessarily the saving and investing side and the earning side too. So when we met, Julien had a plan for his financial future. He was really focused on it and I had just gotten the big job, you know, like the job that you wait for was like, wow, by the time I get that job, I'm going to have everything I want.

And so I was ready to party. I was ready to spend, go on vacations, buy all the things that I hadn't [00:03:00] wanted. But we had this clash about credit card debt and it really sparked a deeper conversation around the role that we wanted finances to play in our lives. And as we got more immersed into the personal finance space online, we got excited.

Like this was back when blogs were just starting, YouTube was just starting. And so we would get excited and share all this stuff with our friends on Facebook. And it would be like crickets, like no one was responding. No one was interested. And we realized that it was just because they didn't connect with the messenger.

At the time, a lot of the people who were writing about finance were software engineers on the West Coast. They were white, they were male, they made 300, 000. And it was just something that, you know, our people couldn't relate to. And so that's how we decided to start writing about our own journey to prove that this was possible, to prove that it's accessible at most income levels, and to show them examples of how we actually budget and live within our means in real life.[00:04:00] 

Roni: That's great. I love that. You saw the need in your own community and you decided you guys were going to be the people to take on that space. That's so cool. Do you mind me asking what was your awesome corporate job that you loved and then left?

Kiersten: it was a role in marketing. Uh, it was like a business development role. I guess today it would be similar to a product manager, but I was basically responsible for marketing cool stuff to hotels.

Julien: Yeah, That's actually how we met. We met, cause we started on the same. team on the same day. And so I had, I was on a different wing of the team.

She was on the other wing. I was a multi channel marketing manager and same vibe. Like I, this was the big job. This is the one that you believe is going to solve all your problems. And for a while it did. But I think after that little clash that we had, you know, to her point, we realized that there's something more about this moment in our lives.

Especially after we realized that so many people that we knew were [00:05:00] also getting the big jobs, but making very different decisions with their money. And we were really intrigued by that. And so since we were walking together down this path, as we started to share, we realized that some people needed some help and that we were a bit more advanced than others.

And we just wanted to find a creative way to draw people in and hopefully inspire them to think differently about the way they manage their money.

Roni: yeah. Can you give me kind of the general overview of what your financial philosophy is? I

Julien: I mean, I think. You know, in as few words as possible, it's keep it simple. Make sure that you have a clear understanding of the money that's coming in and out of your home. Fight lifestyle inflation, which is this urge to spend more as you earn more. And I think to believe that while it is beautiful and great to be a hard worker and to have a strong work ethic, none of us can actually work harder than our money can work for [00:06:00] us.

And we should, to a certain extent, start designing our lives around that so that we free ourselves from required labor, from having to work for money, because eventually, if you are investing wisely and you're clear on what you're trying to achieve, Your money starts to generate returns and out earns your ability to stay employed at a certain level.

And that is the goal. That is a, a tactic, or I would say a core group of, of values that is central to the fire movement, which is what drew us to personal finance and certainly to share our message. I was just seems to be, I think a little bit more, uh culturally relevant, dare I say one that's a bit more willing to combat this culture of work obsession that I think we have here, uh, in America and one that is not afraid to look at those issues.

at where they intersect with other issues like social [00:07:00] justice issues and, you know, sustainability issues, racial issues, things of that nature. And so we're all about inspiring better conversations about money, which ultimately is about expanding it from what is how to, and what is not. Talk more about the why.

Why do we accept this? Why do we think about it this way? Why do we continue to do these things when they ultimately work against these other things that we say are so important to us? Yeah.

Roni: the, you know, kind of the idea of like the work life balance that is so popular, but at the same time, there's a conflicting value in our society that if you're not actually working at, but you're making money, you shouldn't like deserve to make that money. It's a very interesting, conflicting values that we have of like protect your time, but also work harder and be more productive.

Kiersten: And that's basically where we are. Like as a country is battle of the narratives, where does work fit into our lives? [00:08:00] And as generations continue to erode and grow and level out, it's really just going to be a battle of stamina. Like if. Gen Z and Gen Alpha, who are even younger than them, our sons, A, have a totally different understanding of how money is earned, at what point in your life, how much time you have to dedicate in a week to earning it, then that's the nature, like, that's just how change happens, so it's, it's a waiting game, but we know that what's happening right now is not.

it's broken. 

Julien: And I also say this not to force a segue because I am eager to talk about food and meal planning and those things. The first thing that I said, I believe I said was keeping it simple. And I know when we On our personal financial journey, it feels as if money and managing money and investing was far simpler than it was, or than it is now.

Like so much has changed just in the last 10 years, especially with respect to technology, but there are new currencies and new ways to [00:09:00] invest and all kinds of things that just did not exist. Uh, certainly when I first started learning about money and certainly, not when we met, which was a little bit over 10 years ago.

And the reason why I bring that up is because While so much has changed, fundamentally, I still believe that learning how to cook Uh, is likely one of the best financial decisions that you will ever make. And I don't see that changing any time soon. Unfortunately, if you run down the list of, you know, on the internet of things that you can do to make money or save money, like that is one of the things that I think, you Far too many people just accept it's just not going to be the case.

Like it's not an option for me because I'm a busy professional or I'm a busy and working parent, or it's easy for you to say because you used to be employed in the restaurant industry and you're classically trained, but I think. You know, I am just far more, willing, um, not just because of my own skill and, and taste [00:10:00] preferences, but having had thousands of conversations with people about money, I, you know, you start to identify some patterns and I think the people who, invest in learning how to cook is one of those gifts that just keeps on giving and it has so many benefits in your relationship and your health, but without question in your financial life.

And so, uh, you know, I want more of us to not overlook, uh, that as a core skillset for sure.

Roni: hmm. I totally agree, this is the main thing that I wanted to talk to you guys about is, you're very big advocates for cooking at home and as you know, we are a meal planning app. So we hope that people are meal planning and the end result of their meal planning is that they're cooking meals at home for various reasons.

But one of the biggest ones is saving money. And, you know, going out to eat right now, just, you know, it's for me, it's just me and my husband, but we might spend as much on one meal out as I would spend for an entire week at the grocery [00:11:00] store. And I think I liked you. You mentioned this comment of like personal inflation.

I don't remember exactly

Kiersten: Lifestyle, lifestyle

Roni: Lifestyle inflation and almost feels like going out to eat is a big area where you could have lifestyle inflation. You're like, we're making more money now. Let's go out to eat more. Let's treat ourselves more and not realizing that you could end up spending literally like thousands of dollars every month by going out to eat frequently.

Kiersten: literally, literally. And it's, it's hard because the way that we're taught to categorize our budget. And the way that we're taught to view going out to eat as a treat kind of hides the fact that it's thousands of dollars on a monthly basis, like people don't necessarily see it. They just assume we're like, that's just the cost of entertainment or that's just the cost of food.

And it's like, no, that's the cost of your decisions to eat a certain way. And as soon as you can break that, habit as, as soon as you can break that thought pattern, you [00:12:00] really start to understand where you can call back and capture some of that budget and still have the same level of happiness, satisfaction, and fullness with your, with your meals.

Roni: Mm hmm. So when it comes to eating at home, do you think that there needs to be a focus on specifically budget friendly recipes or budget friendly meals, or do you think that just cooking at home, people are automatically going to save a ridiculous amount of money?

Julien: I'm really glad you asked that question. I would say the latter. In fact, I'm not a big fan of focusing on cost savings as at the center of your meal planning. I think enjoyment and, the contribution or the connection between what you're cooking and it's a connection to your overall wellness should be important.

central to what guides your decisions to cook, you know, we shouldn't be headed straight to whatever is on sale and buying 10 of those things and letting that dictate what sets the tone for our nutritional needs for however long it [00:13:00] takes you to bang through that inventory. And so, uh, yeah, I also think that taking that approach contributes to you.

What feels like a sense of punishment that so many people attribute to the idea of cooking at home, right? We just talked about, you know, people being accustomed to spending hundreds of dollars per meal while they're eating out. And in many cases, looking at that as like a badge of honor, I can afford to do that.

We make enough money. This is something that makes our life easier and it's fun. It's more convenient, but. There's a lot that you're missing out on, you know, when you don't learn how to prepare a simple meal at home. And oh, by the way, a lot of the things that we're eating at home, I'm sorry, a lot of the things that we're eating out in restaurants can very easily.

And I think that's something that can be replicated. And if not, you know, can in many cases even be made better at home. But I think so many of us kind of [00:14:00] see it as this far off goal and it's something that they could never do on their own. And I just hope to inspire more people to think differently about that.

And obviously it helps when they have tools that make the obstacles seem more achievable.

Roni: Talk about this actually with one of my coworkers quite a bit, because we try to source a lot of the meat that we get locally. We live right on the edge of a city, so like have access to more like rural, you know, farm area. Yeah. Yeah. And I have a really hard time going out to eat for like a steak dinner nowadays, because the beef that we get and I cook it and like, I've, you know, I've, I've cooked so many steaks at this point that I'm like, I kind of think I do it better than that.

Julien/Kiersten: You probably do. 

Julien: You probably do. Yeah. Yeah.

Roni: Yeah, so you're right. You can definitely replicate things. And sometimes I actually think that that's for me, that can be a fun part of. You know, like going out to eat, we don't go out, we try not to go out to eat super frequently, but when I [00:15:00] do, you know, if we have something that's like, you know, these like yummy, crispy Brussels sprouts or something like, I then try to figure out like, how can I make that at home?

Because that was so good. I want to have that more often. So I'm really glad that you mentioned that. Cause I think that, uh, I think that there's a lot of inspiration people can take from going out to eat and try to transfer into their home. But do you have, I know. Julien, you have experience working in restaurants and you have some culinary experience, but if somebody is struggling to learn how to cook, do you have any resources or tips for them?

Julien: I had tons of resources and tips. I will try to narrow them down really quickly in my head. I will say one of the tools I've been really, pleased with over the last couple of months has been any day cookware, which basically allows you to cook in the microwave. Um, I think just personally, because I'm an eighties baby, I remember when my mom first got a microwave and how she was like, game [00:16:00] changing it felt.

But I also me remember being very, uh, misled because it came with like a cookbook and there was a beautiful brown turkey or something like that on the cookbook. And everyone knows like you're not gonna be able to do that in a microwave in my mind because it was completely new technology. You know, this is how they framed it up.

But Obviously for the vast majority of people, it's a vessel that you use to reheat food. But with this new cookware, it, I think it just unlocks, you know, so many different things and I think also makes it intriguing, but it's easy to clean and it's durable and it's affordable. And I think. For me, like just, you know, anything that removes many people think is an obstacle to getting over the hump of cooking more at home is a tip that I recommend.

And so whether it's a tool like the any day, or some other tool, like a sous vide machine, which, you know, is one that we use pretty often, we're [00:17:00] using one tonight, in fact, to enjoy some steak for dinner. But, um, you know, I would say if I had to say one thing, and most people do not like this, it's to purge.

It's to purge, it's to get rid of all the things, all the promises that you made to yourself, , and the stuff that's sitting in, uh, the freezer that you said you were gonna use. Like, just clear the clutter. I think we're so accustomed to clutter in our freezers, clutter with tools, spices, and spices like. You spend a weekend getting rid of the things that you just know you're not going to use.

And then all of a sudden, I think the overwhelm is just sort of lessened. And now when you look in your refrigerator or in your pantry, I think it's a lot easier to see what things you can pull together, what the possibilities are versus seeing a bunch of reminders from things that you tried that one time and never tried again.

So get rid of those things. They're probably stale anyway. Or You know, donate them [00:18:00] to someone who can actually use it or who's actually looking for it or sell it, make some quick cash if that's what you need to. But I think once you do that, it's, it creates a bit of a fresh start. And I think that helps a lot of people say, all right, now I, I can't feel overwhelmed because I only have the things that I really, really want.

And I think it just makes your life a lot easier.

Roni: I think that's a great tip. And I also could say related to that is purge some of these unnecessary appliances that

Kiersten: Oh my gosh. 

Julien/Kiersten: Yeah.

Roni: you know, everybody has an instant pot and an air fryer and a whatever. But if you never have used those things or they feel way too complicated, it's not worth having them around.

You're it's not, your mind isn't going to change one day. And you're going to say, today's the day that I'm going to master the instant pot, if you haven't already done it in the three years that you've owned it. So. I think similarly you could get rid of the things that you don't use when it comes to like kitchen gadgets and just stick to the ones that you feel are your tried and true [00:19:00] methods that help you actually make dinner possible.

Julien: Yeah. And Guilty as charged by the way, because I, I fell into the hype only because we were trying to inspire more people to cook. And I went out and I bought an instant pot and Kiersten can tell you, I probably used it twice. And then I held onto it because I said, well, if nothing else, it'll be like a soup warmer.

If we have people over for Thanksgiving, but even then I just serve it right out the pie. And so I don't have to ever use it. It's been sitting in the garage for a couple months. So I'm probably going to give it away before the end of the year.

Roni: Yeah. Kiersten made some eyes at you right there.

Kiersten: Yeah, because I've tried to give it away. We've done several purges and I was the one who was guilty of buying all of the gadgets when we moved in together. He went through our, my pantry and my kitchen, and he was like, why do you have like 

Julien: five different ways to peel garlic? 

Kiersten: Yeah. And it's like, well, these were on sale.

This one was yellow. This one, you know, I had a bunch of reasons and excuses, but you're absolutely [00:20:00] right. We don't understand or we underestimate how much that drag just further creates friction between us and the kitchen. And like, if you have to go through and find a bunch of stuff. You obviously feel overwhelmed instead of just looking at a pot, a pan, uh, you know, tongs, whatever it is, and knowing that you can put together something quickly.

Julien: Yeah, your kitchen should not feel like the junk drawer. 

Kiersten: Right. 

Julien: Right. The junk drawer should, you know, if you have one, 

Kiersten: everybody has. 

Julien: All right. Well, it's one drawer, hopefully, but the entire kitchen shouldn't feel that way. And I think that's what contributes to why so many people just avoid cooking all together.

Roni: Right. So, you mentioned the sous vide, which I am not personally very familiar with. I do not think most people would think that that's like a simple, just because of the name, I think, you know, French fancy sounding name. Can you talk a little bit about how you think that's a good tool for somebody who's more of a beginner?[00:21:00] 

Julien: Yeah, so, first of all, I remember the very first time I saw a sous vide and, and I felt the exact same way and this was years ago before it was basically, you know, an affordable kitchen appliance. I mean, it was, it felt like a motor. She would clip on to the back of a giant container, but it was not like an actual, appliance by any means.

But I think the sous vide, you know, it's basically just a device that regulates certain temperatures. The specific one that we have is the jewel. by ChefSteps, or maybe it's the other way around, but one of those things may be both, one of those brands or sub brands. And it's connected to your phone via Bluetooth.

And what I love about it is, is more than just the fact that it allows me to cook a steak, but even like tonight, we're having a steak. I can prepare that steak, put all the seasonings into the bag and have it ready to go. And it will hold at the perfect temperature for [00:22:00] up to like three or four hours.

And so as a busy entrepreneur, you know, working father, like that just opens up so many opportunities. Like I'm not. you know, chained to the kitchen. And I still know that all I need to do whenever I come home is zip it out of the bag. It's going to be the perfect mid rare. And all I need to do is give it a quick touch in a scorching hot cast iron pan.

And my steak is essentially ready. There's no real. worry about it overcooking or being undercooked. It will literally be perfect every single time. And that goes for chicken or pork loin or tenderloin or whatever it is, lamb, whatever it is that you want to do. And so I think just from a, from a standpoint of ease, because a lot of us are, are just busy in our lives and, you know, You want to do laundry, but you also want to have a really nice dinner.

It's very difficult to do both because maybe you haven't perfectly timed something, but [00:23:00] there are certain things that are so time sensitive. It locks you and keeps you there, which means you can't do anything else. And that's also discouraging. And so it just adds a level of ease to your life that I think, um, allows you to still enjoy really nice meals at home without fear of overcooking something, which I think is a huge plus.

But on top of that, it is absolutely excellent at reheating foods. And so we do a good bit of batch cooking as well. And so if I smoke a pork shoulder, for example, I'm not going to eat all 10 pounds of that thing, but I will. Break that down, make tiny vacuum sealed packs. And if I'm ready to just dump that in a pot of water, that's regulated above, let's say 165 degrees.

Or if I happen to smoke a couple of racks of baby back ribs. And they're frozen, uh, in a vacuum sealed bag. I can literally take it straight from the freezer in a [00:24:00] frozen state, dump it into the water bath, and because it's been vacuum sealed, and because the warming up with the sous vide is such a gentle process versus something like the microwave, which is pretty, like, aggressive zapping in a short period of time, It tastes just as good, if not better, the second time around.

And I don't want to get too technical, but I think part of it is because it's vacuum sealed and it almost kind of creates like a confit kind of effect where all the juices, all the flavors are still in there. And so if you can wrap your head around a soup being more delicious the second day, I think the same effect kind of happens when they're using the sous vide as a reheating tool.

And I think all of those things, I think, just make Cooking at home more rewarding. It doesn't make it feel like, Oh, this is a punishment. It's not as good as what I would get if I just decided to spend the money and go out in a restaurant. I mean, once you start to have a preference, but [00:25:00] also are pretty clear on understanding that what we make at home is like definitively better than what we could, you know, It just starts to compound and compound and all of those things, I think, just make cooking at home that much more of a pleasurable, um, activity.

Roni: I'm glad that, uh, you brought that up, but it's just a time saving thing. Cause I do think that time is one of the biggest barriers for people who are wanting to start cooking at home. Maybe they have cooking skills, but they're just so busy. And then it becomes a challenge of like, well, what is, what's the thing that I give up in order to be able to have time to cook, you know, inevitably any recipe that says it's like a 30 minute recipe or a 20 minute recipe, I've never experienced a recipe that only takes me 20 minutes.

Julien/Kiersten: Right. 

Kiersten: It assumes you've already done the prep

Roni: Pretty much. Yeah,

Kiersten: Yeah. Cleaned the sink out. Yeah.

Roni: Yeah. And so I feel like that's probably why people are starting to, gravitate more towards like meal [00:26:00] kits and the like HelloFresh and those kinds of things. What's your guys opinion on the meal kit trend that's happening?

Kiersten: I used to be pro meal kit because I am someone who is very intimidated in the kitchen. And that felt like a paint by numbers exercise where it's like, okay, well, they've already got it measured out and sent. But over time, I think people have started to do the math on those meal kits and they're pricing the inconvenience of buying individual.

ingredients at a grocery store or doing a full meal plan for the week instead of having one sent to you and the economics just didn't work anymore. And so I think there's a way to recreate that on your own. It does require a little more work, but at the end of the day you have ingredients that you know that you'll use again.

You have foods that you know that you can eat again. You have recipes that you know that you can tweak. And so it's one of those things where you slow down to speed up later. And it's a very [00:27:00] hard concept to wrap your head around, especially as Americans, but it's very similar to investing or saving or any of these other things that we do for our long term benefit.

There is a lot of benefit in just taking the time to learn how to do it to your preferences, to your needs. your appetite levels to whatever's going on, your dietary needs or desires. There's a, there's a huge benefit in learning how to do that yourself and figuring out how to create your own meal kit, so to speak in your pantry.

Like what are your essentials? What are the things that you weave in and out and what are the treats from there? You should be able to create at least 10 to 12 basic, meal items that can roll you through a month, you know? So, 

Julien: yeah, we tried it, very early on in our relationship and I was actually excited because I think it, for me, relieved the pressure of trying to come up with something new, you know, it was, it was great to know that, oh, there's something that I would have never made on [00:28:00] my own and the ingredients were all here.

So that, from that standpoint, I thought it was pretty cool, but I was surprised, uh, at how technically sound of a cook, how experienced I thought you'd have to be. I didn't think what they were 

Kiersten: asking 

Julien: people to do 

Kiersten: was 

Julien: simple. Um, you know, and even if it had like, I think there was like a star system. I don't remember which brand it was, but it was, it was considered fresh, simple.

And I was like, I wouldn't consider this simple because, you know, and again, I was learning from her as someone who is not nearly as experienced. I was like, yeah, if you can't do this and you're really trying and he watched me cook all the time. And so you're kind of learning that way. Like it felt like it actually, there were some underlying assumptions about how difficult or how skilled of a cook you needed to be in order to actually replicate some of those dishes.

So that was my experience. And that's part of the reason why we decided to go in another direction. But, um, I'd be curious to try it [00:29:00] again for the same reasons, because, you know, why not switch it up? Because there's certain things that I likely would not buy on my own. But, um, yeah. Well, 

Kiersten: now it's evolved.

Like now you can get cooked meals to your doorstep or even frozen meals to your doorstep where you're not assembling and cooking, you're just reheating it. And I think that's a great model for people who are on the fence where it's like, try the baseline of that, or even just shop your frozen food section.

and go beyond just your standard grocery stores. We love our Asian market. What is it called? Namdaemun, but you might have an H Mart in your area, but like the frozen food game has completely changed. Technology has improved frozen foods. Like we're beyond the hungry man plates. You can get an amazing like dim sum or you know, ramen or even, you know, pasta, you can get all these things in your frozen food section now.

And they're flash frozen. Like they're not like crusty and dehydrated. Like it's actually good. [00:30:00] And so I think between frozen foods, ready made meal kits, if you're on the fence around time, if you're struggling with time, you've got all of these different options, but I wouldn't go all in on any single one of them.

I would just do like the base level and plan to fill in any gaps on my own.

Roni: That's a great tip. I think that we had a similar experience with the, with the meal kits where I actually thought that it wasn't saving us any money because a lot of times the meal kit is just giving you food for dinner. So like the big claim is like, you don't have to go to the grocery store, everything's just sent to you at your house.

And I was like, but I still have to go to the grocery for breakfast and lunch, you know.

Kiersten: and bananas and like

Roni: And so, yeah, to me, it was like, I don't actually see the time savings necessarily of this because I still have to go to the grocery store. So I'm still spending time doing that. And then cost wise, it was like. I think the price per meal was actually not as inexpensive as I could do it myself for, you know, like a similar meal.

And I really liked that you talked [00:31:00] about, you know, just learning to create your own method and doing it yourself. And we like to say around here that like, do your future self a favor, you know, put some of the hard work in now and you're going to reap the benefits of that later. That's how we always think about meal planning.

Do you guys do your own meal planning? I You talked about having your staples at home that, you know, you can make meals with, but what does that look like in your house?

Julien: Um, you know, I've never actually fully described the process before, as much as we've spoken about money and food, but we've certainly not spoken that much about the meal planning. But for me, it starts with the menu. I think I take the approach similar to that of a chef, which is that I start with the Whatever it is I'm making, which is in part inspired by what we want, what might be different from what we've had the prior day or week before, what might be in season to a certain extent, and then that dictates what the shopping list is.

And we go [00:32:00] for those things, you add in a couple of other things. staples and things that you just have to keep on hand because we also have a son and he doesn't eat all of the things that we eat. And then that's essentially what it looks like. I, I have a, I write the menu directly on the refrigerator.

And so the three or four things that we have in there that I'm cooking for the day are literally written there with the dry erase marker. And to the right of that is the shopping list. We have our own unique, uh, printable, which is like fruits and vegetables. And then here's all the bulk items you need to buy.

Here's all the dry goods. Here's, Frozen, here's, uh, meats and proteins. Here's drinks, cold brews or beverages and things of that nature. Uh, and then on the bottom, it's just like where I would write out the actual menu, sort of duplicating what's on the refrigerator, with like a little note section.

So just remember that, you know, just making it up, maybe we've got to get something for our son's little league team. [00:33:00] And so you want to add these things to the list. Yeah, I go to the grocery store. Maybe, uh, my grocery store of choice, uh, right now, I would say for the last year and a half has been Aldi.

I've been really pleased with. How they have improved the quality. I know the first time I walked into when all the few years ago, I walked out immediately and I was like, after someone recommended it and I was like, no, you know, this is not it. Sorry. It does not meet my standards. I'm leaving. But they've made a lot of improvements over the last couple of years.

So that's been great. But I do that once, maybe twice a week. Uh, and then I go to Costco. We joined Costco, uh, exactly a year, a little about a year ago, I would say. And that has been something that we do once every four to five weeks.

Roni: Okay. So talk to me about Costco because I have, I've kind of opinionated on Costco. I also have a Costco membership. I go, I have a very small house, so I don't have room to like store, you [00:34:00] know, 20 pounds of something. But, so I go kind of infrequently, but I think that. There Costco can be often misleading and in the savings.

A lot of the times I feel like I can actually get better prices at the grocery store. And it takes a little bit of digging to like, look at the different apps and be like, Oh, what's it here. And what's it there. But yeah. So give me your take on Costco. What are the, some of the things that you feel like are actually a good budget by a Costco?

Julien: for me, it's not really so much about the budgeting. It's about limiting the amount of reps that I need to leave the home and go grocery shopping. So if I didn't go to Costco, I don't believe I would be able to say That I only go to Aldi once, maybe twice a week, I would likely have to end up going to Aldi three, maybe four times.

And certainly I would not have, the flexibility to buy options that we consider like quick meals. And so, you know, just having the option to just cut open a bag of chicken tikka [00:35:00] masala, cause I don't feel like making it from scratch. And admittedly, I haven't quite mastered. How to make it as well is what I can pre purchase and so between the option of that and then having to order it from our local Indian restaurant, you know, I have this as a acceptable option.

So for me, it's more so around the convenience that it offers. And there are certain things that, certain products that we do just actually enjoy, like there's snacks and nuts and extra virgin olive oil and honey and things of that nature, but I certainly don't shop and just go down the aisle and pick up, you know, three pounds of, you know, Pickled, you know, you know, asparagus and okra and things like that, just because it's a gourmet item that's on sale.

That's not how I shop at Costco. It's in most cases, because I'm buying certain things in bulk, like chicken breasts, and coffee, you know, all of these kinds of bulk shelf stable [00:36:00] items on occasion we'll buy. Uh, some meats, but that just depends on if I feel like and have the time to actually put something on the smoker.

But, now that I do a lot more batch cooking, and I've still got room to grow, but I do a good bit of batch cooking. Costco plays a role in helping me kind of buy certain things. But to your point, I would say, you know, if there are savings with respect to the meats versus what I can get an Aldi in some cases, I have.

Um, greater success with quality, better quality in certain products that I can get at Costco than I can get at my local Aldi. But, to me they go hand in hand and I'm indifferent in some of the things that I choose to buy at Costco versus buying at Aldi.

Roni: That's a good perspective on it. I think is realizing that maybe it doesn't always have to be about the budget shopping. You guys already mentioned that you're not super concerned about the budget shopping. but sometimes it's just really about the conveniencing and like maximizing your time can [00:37:00] sometimes actually be the more important part of the process.

Kiersten: And sometimes not going to a store as frequently is the budget hack that you need. Like there are a lot of disciplined people who can stick to their list, but there are a lot of people in grocery stores are designed to intrigue you to buy things that you didn't necessarily have on your list, but you can find room to eat this week or you want to try.

And so staying out of them is, is a, is a hack for a lot of people, speaking for myself.

Roni: So this episode is going to go live right around the holidays. And so I'm curious if you guys do have any tips for those like big holiday meals, they can be very expensive meals. Do you, do you have any tips for people to try and maybe stick to a budget for those meals or is maybe your mindset is the opposite of that.

But I'm just curious what you guys think about that.

Kiersten: Yeah, we have a love hate relationship with [00:38:00] traditions that require big, expensive meals that end up getting thrown away. And so our biggest tip is to cook what people like, you know, like don't feel boxed into a menu. Don't feel this pressure to send everybody home with extras and don't feel hesitant to ask people to pitch in, you know, like the rules have changed.

There have been all of these guidelines and traditions that have put the pressure on like one single person or one single household to host and it's a new day. It's just like weddings where you can make the rules yourself. You can go non conventional. You can have tacos if that's what y'all want to do on Thursday.

Like the turkeys go on sale two days later, so you can have it on another day. You can have a friend's giving. Like I would encourage people to treat it as a creative exercise instead of. Trying to find a [00:39:00] way to make what everybody is going to get work within your budget. Like, that's just anti the laws of supply and demand.

That's anti capitalism. Like, it's just very, very hard to do that. It's very hard to put something that everybody wants within this budget. You can try. But your effort might be better used on a creative exercise that just allows you to focus your energy somewhere else. 

Julien: And I will also say this, I completely agree with what she just said, but I feel like the allure of the traditional meal has been eroded by all these work potlucks

Roni: Mm hmm.

Julien: that happen.

Like for me, it almost felt like. I remember when I was a kid and I used to love those meals because I didn't grow up in a, you know, traditional American household. So we didn't enjoy them very often, but as I got older and I started to look forward to those meals, but then I realized that there were so many people like having Thanksgiving dinner, like, you [00:40:00] know, Plate for plate, you know, same things like at the potluck to me that just kind of spoiled it.

It wasn't really special anymore because I can't say it had been a year since I've had this. I had it last Thursday at the company potluck, and it wasn't even really that good. And so it just kind of took away from the, you know, the whole point of it all. And so, yeah, I think because of that, what we found is that you find that a lot more people are far more open to skipping it all together.

And if anything, they would love to try something different because it does kind of feel like the same thing, um, because you're not just having it once. You're probably having that meal three or four times. And it starts like the week prior to the actual event. So, Break the rules. Don't be afraid to break tradition.

And I think you'd be surprised that there are a lot of people who are on board with that. 

Kiersten: And go internationally, like for your inspiration, not like literally. Right. Not saying like get on a plane, but look internationally because I think [00:41:00] people are far more open if it's something that they haven't done or there's some novelty or a theme to it.

So something as simple as like a ramen bar, which, you know, the materials are not expensive. The ingredients don't have to be expensive or a taco bar or different variations on rice and beans. Like you can have a lot of fun with budget meals just by theming it up and adding some layer of. novelty or celebration.

It doesn't always have to be about the pilgrims and the Mayflower and like the initial meal that we shared with the native. Like it doesn't have to be that. It's a holiday about Thanksgiving and gratefulness and gratitude and community. And so like just play with that theme.

Roni: I love that take on it so much. My husband has always said, cooking a turkey one day a year doesn't make any sense anyways, because nobody knows how to do it. You'll only do it once a year. It rarely ever turns out amazing.

Kiersten: exactly. We should do [00:42:00] Thanksgiving together.

Roni: you should just buck the system because everybody wants to eat, you know, New York strip or something instead. Anyways.

Kiersten: And it's so much better. We just started hosting it at my house, at our house, a couple years ago. We used to go to my mom's house every single year. And you could, she's getting older. And you could just tell her heart wasn't in making the big feast, but she would still try every year. And it would just create this system where You're hungry after you eat, like, and you don't want the leftovers the next day.

Like, you're ready to get out the house. And if 

Julien: we're being honest, you know, she's probably using the same seasonings. 

Kiersten: Year after year. That she had when you were a kid. Yeah. And we 

Julien: don't even think about it. 

Kiersten: Yeah. She's not using cumin any other time. Not 

Julien: only are we just using, you know, cooking this thing once a year, so to your husband's point, you're not, you don't have an opportunity to learn or improve on what you may have messed up the last time.

It's not like, you know, any other thing that we prepare, but we don't oftentimes rotate out [00:43:00] those seasonings anyway. And so it does degrade over time and it kind of takes away from the experience. So yeah, I say buck the whole thing and you know, make it your own. I think make it your own, whatever it is that you want, agree on that.

And, uh, focus on what really matters, which is spending quality time with people you love.

Roni: That's great. Was there anything that we missed that you guys really wanted to talk about today related to eating at home?

Kiersten: No, this was great. We haven't done a food podcast episode in a long time and this, this felt good. We probably need to revisit that.

Roni: Well, why don't you guys just remind everybody the name of your podcast, uh, the name of your book, where they can connect with you, all that good stuff.

Kiersten: Yeah, if you want to stay connected with us, we are on just about every social media platform with the exception of TikTok under at Rich and Regular. Our website is richandregular. com. You can go on there and sign up for our newsletter. We also have a YouTube channel where we have a unique digital series [00:44:00] called money on the table, which is a combination of Julien cooking or us visiting local restaurants, and then having a really interesting conversation about money.

So check that out. And we look forward to connecting with some of your listeners.

Roni: Yeah, that's awesome. I'm definitely going to check out that YouTube, series. That sounds awesome. Well, thanks again for joining me. Yeah. Thank you so much.

Julien: Thank you.

Roni: Thanks for tuning in to today's episode. There are links in the show notes to connect with Julien and Kiersten and to listen to their podcast as well as to buy their book. I really hope that you guys go and learn some more from them because they are so much fun. I have really enjoyed listening to their podcast.

They are so energetic and. I had an amazing time talking to them today for that exact same reason. So I hope you enjoyed this interview. Please share it with a friend and thanks again for listening. I'll see you [00:45:00] again in two weeks.