#75: American Food Culture and International Flavors with Emmanuel Laroche

Born and raised in France, Emmanuel lives in New Jersey and travels around the country conducting tastings and giving lectures and presentations on food, flavors, ingredients, and consumer trends. He hosts the popular podcast “Flavors Unknown”, featuring a series of conversations with acclaimed and award-winning chefs, pastry chefs, and mixologists from around the United States.
I talked to Emmanuel about the influence of his family and French culture on his career path and love for food. He explained how immigration not only shapes America’s food landscape but also how food serves as a bridge between a chef's birth country and their adopted home. We finished up this conversation with Emmanuel giving four different ways to incorporate international flavors into your home cooking - it's easier than you think! Enjoy!

Connect with Emmanual and his podcast:
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/flavorsunknown/
Website: https://flavorsunknown.com/
Find his book:
https://flavorsunknown.com/conversations-behind-the-kitchen-door/

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Transcript

[00:00:00] to the Plan to Eat podcast. Where I interview industry experts about meal planning, food and wellness. To help you answer the question. What's for dinner. 

Roni: Hello, and thank you for joining me for another episode of the Plan to Eat podcast today. I have an interview with Emmanuel LaRoche, who for his day job is the VP of marketing

with a global manufacturer of flavors in the food and beverage industry, but he is also the host of a popular podcast called flavors unknown. And he has also written a book called conversations behind the kitchen door.

Today, I got to talk to Emmanuel about his heritage of being French and the influence that his family played on him getting into the food and culinary industry. We talked about the role of immigration in American food culture and what [00:01:00] he has seen through the conversations he's had with different chefs and culinary experts.

He gives some great advice for how to really easily include international flavors in your everyday cooking. 

Really enjoyed this interview and I hope you enjoy it too.

Hi, Emmanuel. Thank you so much for joining me on the podcast today.

Emmanuel: Thank you, Roni, for having me. I'm really excited to be, uh, to be on your show, uh, Riggs. Um, great to have a conversation with you.

Roni: So why don't we just get started by having you tell the audience who you are and what you do.

Emmanuel: I cannot lie. I cannot say I'm, you know, I live in Jersey and I'm sort of central Jersey people. I'm not going to believe you, you know, listening to my accent and, uh, you know, and my name either. So, um, I, I've been though 21 years in, uh, in the U S and I'm American and French. Uh, but I guess I'm going to keep the accent.

So I have to live with that. But yeah, born in France. I [00:02:00] lived there until 2002. My kids were born in France and we arrived as a family. And my kids were 10, 6 and 4 to New Jersey. And the reason why it's because the company I work for transferred me to the US at that time. So I'm in charge of marketing for a company that manufacture Uh, flavors for the food and the beverage industry.

And, uh, there was an opportunity to create the marketing team in, in us. And I had a previous experience, uh, working in the U S after my, uh, I graduated, I had a master of chemistry and an MBA and. I went for a year in Wisconsin. Uh, that was really different, but I really loved it. I love the pace of the business in the U S and I said, Hey, one day I want to go back and, um, it happened.

So I was very excited. And, uh, uh, yeah. So through my, um. My, uh, let's say day job, I been in contact with, uh, uh, the world of chefs and I always been fascinated [00:03:00] and the world of chefs since, you know, a young age, and maybe we'll come back to that. But, um, and, um, I, I started, um, moderating panel discussions, you know, with, uh, with chefs for my day job.

And I wanted always to dig more into, you know, their world. And, um, I was excited to, um, you know, to launch a podcast in 2018 called Flavors Unknown, where I have a genuine conversation with acclaimed chefs and pastry chef mixologists from around the country. And, um, yeah, in 2022, I published a book about some of those conversations, plus my own experience, uh, called, uh, Conversations Behind the Kitchen Door.

So, in a nutshell,

Roni: You do a lot of things. So you made it very succinct. Yeah. So let's go back to what got you interested in, you know, going into the, the industry of food and the culinary industry in general.

Emmanuel: yeah, I think that's, you know, as I, as I said, I went to [00:04:00] first, you know, chemistry and, and, um, because that's probably what I like the, or dislike the least, I want to say, maybe from all the discipline that I, Uh, took when I was in France, you know, in, uh, high school and, and college. Um, and, um, at the end, I, I, I really wanted to, um, to understand the business.

So that's why I went to, uh, you know, having an MBA, but, uh, the food has been always. Part of my life, uh, um, born in a French family with a mother that, you know, love to cook. My father was really passionate about wine. I'm the youngest of the family, so I had two brothers and a sister. My brother went to as well, um, you know, wine and foods, same thing with my sister.

So, um, uh, you know, food was ubiquitous at home and, uh, and that was part of our, um, you know, family dinners on the, on the weekend. And, um, I was always drawn to it, um, and spend time with my mom in the, in the [00:05:00] kitchen. And, uh, she taught me, in fact, how to, um, cook when I was a, when I was a kid. Um, um, seven years old there, she, she told me, and she told me how to, uh, um, you know, work on the quiche, you know, Lorraine from scratch.

It was from that region. So, um, so that was, that was nice. And, and, um, and I had an uncle, her brother. Had a hotel and restaurants in the Jura, uh, a region of France. Some people heard about that. Uh, so G U R a, you know, about that region, because there's a lot of natural wine now coming from, you know, from that region in France.

So a lot of Americans, you know, have heard about at least, you know, those four letters because of that. But, but I spent a lot of time when I was, uh, when I was a kid, uh, until when I was probably a young teenager. And unfortunately after that, he passed away. So, um, that, um, closed the, the door of, uh, that world that sounds very sounded like very, uh, mysterious and excited to me.

So, so I spent a lot of, um, [00:06:00] you know, at least, you know, several weeks on summer vacation, you know, uh, at, at his place. So, so that's probably the bug of. Food between my mom and my uncle, that's, um, you know, um, I took that bag of, uh, you know, with me, so

Roni: that's, uh, I read the, the introduction to your book and you talk about that process of her teaching you how to make the quiche Lorraine, which is really, I think it's really special and, uh, it's very interesting. So many of the people that I've talked to on the podcast have. Who have gone into the food industry, have an experience like that, where somebody in their life really nurtured their love for food.

Um, it's really a special memory that you have.

Emmanuel: Yeah. And I do mention it, I think, you know, throughout the book that, um, I think it's important for. Being a parent or a grandparent is to, um, you know, invite their kids or their grandchildren, you know, in the kitchen and spend time, [00:07:00] you know, with them and, and show them, um, you know, some of like the ABC of, uh, of cooking or of pastry or baking.

Um, I think this is a memory that they always kept. You know, they will keep with them. Um, I, I kept all those memory, you know, with me, um, maybe, um, one part of in life, you know, I forgot about them, but now, you know, in the process of, of course, of writing the book and, you know, all those memory came back to life and I'm like, Oh, okay.

Yeah. This is, you know, things that's maybe. You know, I, I found like being very superficial, you know, and I mentioned in the book, you know, I still remember my mom, you know, dotted the, the, the, the dough off, you know, the quiche to make sure that there's no air bubble, you know, and, and she was really patiently doing this and showing this to me.

And as a kid, I'm like, yeah, you know, okay. Whatever. I just want to put back the liquid, you know, with the eggs there. Why should I do all of this? And of course, now looking back, I'm like, [00:08:00] okay, that was part of the tradition and, and she showed it to me and I still do it. You know, I do a lot of quiche at home and you know, that's important.

So everything, every little detail is important. So parents, grandparents, bringing your kids to the kitchen, you know, for

Roni: Yeah. Well, and even if you felt like that wasn't something that you thought of very much before you wrote your book, it clearly influenced the trajectory of your life and, you know, being very passionate about food. And so.

Emmanuel: For sure. But always, even, you know, when I was, um, um, you know, in marketing for a food and drink company in Europe, and I, I was always lucky to travel. And I love, I love travel. That's, I think another, uh, things that my parents, you know, um, showed me and, and that I would. Part of the lifestyle, I would say, you know, and some, I understand sometimes it's not easy, but um, you know, because it might cost, you know, a bit of money, but my mom didn't work at that time and my dad was a French teacher.

So, [00:09:00] um, but they always made sure that, you know, we, we visit different parts of France or we went to other European countries and understand distance were a bit shorter over there. Uh, but, um, so for me, it's, you know, discovering Uh, for me, discovering those culture, you know, it happened through foods, so food, so that, that, that was another, you know, connection, uh, that I had with food and, and discovering this, like.

You know, oh, this is, oh, they eat something very different in the UK that we eat in France or, you know, in Germany. So, so that was pretty,

Roni: Yeah. In your, uh, world travels just in general, maybe not so much as a kid, but has there, did you have a favorite destination for food that you would recommend?

Emmanuel: that's a good question. The thing is I'm always passionate about a lot of things. So, I always find, my kids always said that you always find something that you love anywhere you go. But, um, I have to say [00:10:00] probably Japan is probably the one, um, in the book I mentioned, you know, that I always. I took like my three children and I always took them into one destination that they wanted after they graduated, you know, from high school from, you know, college.

Um, and, uh, I took my younger son. In fact, that was the, the trip with I did with the youngest and we went to, um, to Japan and I think the, I discover. Obviously the world of, um, ramen, the world of sushi. It's, you know, elevated to a another level. But I think that's what fascinated me the most and inspired me more the most is like the street food.

'cause we hear the street food from a lot of country, but we don't really hear, you know, too much from Japan. Um, I mean, the people that are experts, maybe they do, but, uh, for me that spending time in, uh, in Tokyo and, uh, and Osaka especially, um, and, you know, having access to a lot of the skewers that they are [00:11:00] doing, a lot of the, the, you know, the balls with, um, you know, the large filled with octopus and, and, uh, you know, that, that for me, like really, um.

Excited me a lot, you know, in terms of food and and especially my taste buds for sure.

So yeah, people should go to Japan. I know it's a little far, but uh, um, it is, um, it's fantastic destination and, and people there are really amazingly, um, nice. So, so that, that's probably one of my best trip, in fact.

Roni: Great. That's on my list. It's already been on my list. So that's just more of an incentive to go. I think. So let's talk a little bit about your podcast. It's called flavors unknown. Uh, what's the story behind that name?

Emmanuel: Yeah. So, um, so obviously I am, you know, in a world of flavors and. Um, so flavors is part of my life since, you know, I started working, um, and, uh, because we manufacture, you know, natural flavors and natural extracts for the food and the [00:12:00] beverage industry. But as well, when you think about the world of chefs, you know, what they want to achieve is in the dish or even, you know, uh, in the dessert or mixologist in a drink is released this balance of flavors that's, you know, the important aspect balancing.

With like the key taste of, um, you know, sweet, sour, um, you know, salty, um, acid and umami and so on. So, uh, so flavor was for me, people don't really spend enough time to understand behind the scene, um, what inspire like a dish, what inspired drink, why chefs or mixologists thought about that combo, you know, of flavor.

And when I go to a restaurant, Um, I annoy always the people and the guests that are with me or my family Because i'm going to go in the menu and i'm going to really focus on the one combo The one flavor that I haven't experienced that's what drawn me to you know what I do and my passion [00:13:00] So that's the flavor part.

Um, and the unknown it's because yes, there's a lot of so there's two reasons for it there's one because um, um for me, it's like the creativity aspect is Let's discover Like something new that we don't know in the world of flavor. Um, and then the other piece is, it's just happened that. Um, Anthony Bourdain was, um, you know, uh, someone that was looking up to for.

Um, what he has done, you know, on in this country in terms of bringing, um, international cuisine, um, you know, to the masses. Um, and, um, he passed away, um, I have to say a few months before I launched the podcast. So for me, it was like, okay, unknown is the way to go because he had this show called parts unknown.

So it was kind of an homage, you know, to, um, for Anthony Bourdain.

Roni: Oh, that's really wonderful. You have talked to. You know, chefs and culinary experts from [00:14:00] all over the world. Um, and you took a lot of that information and put it in your book. That was the purpose of your book was to like, like you said earlier, to kind of distill some of that information. Um, what was it about that information that you felt?

What made it so that it was like necessary to be in a book and not just on the podcast.

Emmanuel: You know, you have a podcast, so you know that, um, having a podcast, recording a podcast. Publishing a podcast is one element, promoting the podcast and bringing that to the audience, you know, is the second step and people don't think about it, you know, especially when you talk to young people that want to, or people that start a podcast, they said, okay, I'm ready to go.

No one is listening. So, you know, you need to bring those people in and for me, having a book was one of the objective is that it is a way to, uh, to, to, uh, expand the horizon in terms of reach, you know, [00:15:00] in terms of, uh, audience, um, and bring more people to the podcast. So there was one aspect, uh, the other aspect as well is, um, 

let's back up a little bit is that, um, I, when I arrived to this country 21 years ago, and, um, you know, obviously I spent my time discovering, um, you know, the food culture. Um, I always, you know, the first. Two, three, four, five years that you're here, all your friends from France, your family from France wants to come over, you know, you leave and leave close to Manhattan.

So of course, you know, touristic place. So you have always visitors. And then, uh, uh, which is not the case anymore, you know, as often, but, but the it's interesting because they were like, yeah. And we don't understand there's ways that food culture here. People eat pizza, they eat hamburger, they eat hot dogs.

Uh, and then I started to talk [00:16:00] to them about, yeah, but there is, you know, this dish or there is that desserts. And so I'm saying, yeah, but this is not American. Chinese influence or this is Indian influence or, you know, and, uh, you know, I was kind of confused. It was like, you know, I was new in the country.

Uh, I started traveling, but, you know, as not as extensively I, I've done, you know, after 21 years. Um, so I was not sure how I would answer to it. I was frustrated. Um, and then with all the conversation after that I had on the podcasts, I'm like, okay, now I can answer. I'm going to write a book and this is, this is an answer to those people that have no idea what is the culture of food in the United States, that if you spend the time to travel to go past those, you know, fast food chains and, you know, and there is.

It's very rich. There is like Specific dishes from one [00:17:00] region to another there is specific ingredients that grow, you know grows like a different part of the country and then you have which for me was the way to answer my family and friends from france is The culture of food in america is driven by the history of immigration. And in fact, this is what it is america is You know, a country of, uh, you know, of immigration. And if it started at the beginning with Western Europe and China, there's a law that changed in 1965. That's in fact, uh, opened the door for other countries to come in. Uh, so people from Latin America, people from other country from Asia and so on.

So suddenly. You know, a lot of things happen because a lot of those immigrants most of the time open, you know, like a food shop and maybe it could be basic, but this is their way for them [00:18:00] to, um, you know, to get some income. And, um, in fact, when you look back and fast forward. Every time I go, you, you, you know, um, Smorgasburg in, um, you know, when you heard the name, like the, this is kind of a big food events that takes care, there's several in the country, there's one in LA, for sure, there's one in Brooklyn, and you have like, um, 100 vendors that come like on Saturday, and they have like, you know, not food trucks, but they have like different, you know, stores and, and um, Yeah.

When I look at this and I, you know, I can go from one to another. One is maybe like a Thai influence. Another one is going to be Moroccan influence. In other words, in Mexican, another one is arepas, you know, maybe from, um, you know, Columbia and so on for me, it's really almost like. Here's the representation of what's that change of law in 1965 did, you know, to the food scene in America today, I have it in Brooklyn.

It's in the it's there, you know, in [00:19:00] Smorgasburg, so, so that's, you know, so that's that was for me the main drivers for for like writing the book.

Roni: Well, I imagine I live in Colorado and are, uh, at least in the, uh, just North of Denver. Yeah. And our, but our, our town is not, I wouldn't say very diverse with food. We have a lot of American pubs, but I'm, I'm certain that on the East coast, particularly around New York City, there's so much diversity of food.

Just for like the population of people being so much greater there. But you used the word fusion a couple of different times in there. And so I'm curious, like what your take is on, people immigrating to the United States and they're cooking their traditional food, but like, how does it get influenced by either American food or maybe the American palette?

Like, how does that fusion work for a lot of people?

Emmanuel: So I think you need to distinguish like the people [00:20:00] that immigrate and, and the people that are maybe like the chef now that are part of diaspora and that they are maybe like the second or third generation. I think that's this two different style. Um, in fact, maybe to symbolize it and try to illustrate it.

If you take American Chinese food for instance, this is like the adaptation of some of the dishes and some even of them doesn't exist in the Chinese culture, but when Chinese immigrant arrived, they had to adapt, they had to adapt because they had different ingredients, you know, the broccoli.

Was not the same broccoli. It is the Italian broccoli. It's not the broccoli from China. So it's a different taste. Um, and it, um, or they had to adapt, you know, the level of, um, you know, spiciness and to the American pad. So then it became this American Chinese food, which in fact only exist. In America, that's part of almost like American, you know, food culture like [00:21:00] pizza or, you know, it's so that's interesting.

So that's for me, one aspect. And so there's fusion because it's, it's adapting some recipes to the local ingredients or to the taste of the locals here, you know, the American. And then you have after that, what we see today, which I think is fantastic. It's like bubbling everywhere, which are the second or third generation Of chefs that have a background of their family comes from Thailand, they comes from Philippines, they come from Mexico, from Peru, you know, and then, so it's interesting when I talk to most of them, their family when they arrived here, in fact, wanted them to assimilate, so they were not really So, like experimenting or even tasting, um, you know, they were tasting American food and eating American food.

And then when they had their education, most of the time, [00:22:00] culinary discussion was a French style of, you know, culinary education. And then at one moment, They decided to reconnect with their roots. They went back to Peru. They went back to Thailand. They went back to, um, you know, to, um, Mexico, and then they took some of those interesting.

Um, maybe, um, like culinary techniques that were different from the one they grew up with or they learned. Um, and they started to bring that into their menu, but they grew up in the U. S. So, in fact, they started to connect. It's not like really authentic Peruvian because that's not what they are interested in.

And they grew up with eating American food. So they are blending some of the American ingredients where they are so local. So it would be maybe like if you have a restaurant, like in Denver, for instance, and it's, you know, um, American and Mexican person from second or third [00:23:00] generation, they were going to look at some specific ingredients that you have in the, in the Colorado area.

And this. fantastic ingredients there. And then they are going to, um, you know, blend this with maybe like a French techniques because they learned the French technique. And then as well, they want maybe to add, um, you know, a specific, like, or maybe it's based on a recipe from Mexico. So there's that. So it's not like the old fusion idea where you do not remember, know what it is at the end, you know, when you have on your plate here, it's really very specific.

It's a blending local ingredients with a certain techniques and with a certain, you know, maybe a recipe in mind. And they play with that. So I think it's fascinating. And it's for me it is.

Roni: Oh, that's super interesting. It's I, I hadn't thought about that idea that it could be, there could be multiple influences on one dish that you could obviously have like local [00:24:00] ingredients at the, but that the technique that, that somebody would use that they learned as their culinary style might be different from the actual like cultural influence of the actual dish.

That's super fascinating that all of those three things could be slightly different. 

Emmanuel: An example that exists for me that, that, uh, you know, it's fascinating is, um, and it is not in the U. S., but it is brought in the U. S., but, um, Peruvian food is, in fact, the fastest growing, uh, culinary or cooking influence, you know, uh, in the U. S. at the moment. The fastest is Peruvian food. aNd, uh, when you look at, uh, Peruvian cuisine, there's a lot of influences there, in Peru.

Um, there is Um, the Spanish, you know, that came when you look, it's again, it's a story of immigration, you know, you have to think about it. You cannot avoid it. That's the way it is. Sometimes it's forced. Sometimes it's too like very difficult moment could be a war. It could be an occupation, you know, from a country to [00:25:00] another, but there's always influence of food and there's an outcome of it.

So Chinese, sorry, um, the Spanish, you know, conquistadors like arrive. Yeah. So influences on certain ingredients, you know, they're like olive, for instance, like olive grows in Peru, and there's a fantastic olive sauce because of the Spanish influence from a hundred years back. And then you have a wave of immigration coming from China.

So there is a typical Peruvian cuisine called chifa. That is the Chinese Peruvian combination. And then after that There is the Japan, the Japanese influence because there's been a, an immigration of Japanese people in Peru, in Peru. In fact, uh, the Japanese community in Peru is the second largest in the world after Japan.

So then if you look, and I want to use that as an example, ceviche, which is a typical dish from Peru, where [00:26:00] the fish were or seafood were cut into cubes and pieces and where. We place into, you know, lemon juice to, to start like a little bit of the cooking, you know, if you want the, the action of the lemon juice and the acidity on, on the fish.

So it really gives like, um, you know, a specific, uh, way, you know, for the ceviche. But now the immigrants from Japan. And the chefs there from Japan taught the chef from Peru that you can cut the fish differently, you can cut your fish like a sashimi. And then, in fact, preserve like the fresh taste of fish that you are going to add the acidity at the last minute of serving.

And this is now what we call the tiradito. So if you go to And you see that, uh, maybe not where you live, but on the East Coast, on the West Coast, there's a lot of Peruvian restaurants in Atlanta as well. There's a lot of restaurants, Peruvian restaurants, and they have on the menu [00:27:00] ceviche and tiradito. So, it's an illustration of the history of immigration in Peru that now is coming here because of the Peruvian chef.

Or the, the, the chef that have a background, uh, you know, in Peru and Peruvian family that are like the second or third generation, you know, have immigrated here in the U S they are bringing all of this, all those excitement of, you know, new flavors and so on into, uh, the American, um, you know, uh, landscape.

So,

Roni: Wow. That is really fascinating. 

Emmanuel: sorry, I know I never can shut up when I talk about food. So you have to

Roni: I, oh, I love it. No, I really love it. Um, it's so cool to hear that and to, because I've seen, oh, obviously I've had ceviche, but I've seen those things on the menu before. And sometimes you, you know, you look at it and you're like, I don't actually know what's this one and what's this one.

I don't know which one I should get. So it's interesting when you know, the backstory of something, it makes [00:28:00] it much more, you appreciate the experience more when you understand the backstory of it. , so I'm curious if you have any ideas for people who are just at home cooks, at home chefs, um, like hearing about, you know, international flavors and like how these different cuisines can develop.

Do you have any tips for how everyday people can include a little more international flavor in their cooking?

Emmanuel: Yeah, I know. It seems always like overwhelming. Oh, you know, I, uh, how do, how do I start? And, um, is it, it's complicated. Um, you know, there's a lot of ingredient that I don't have. So, yeah, for sure. Um, but, you know, I. I work a lot. Um, my day job, I travel a lot and sometimes I don't have a lot of time for me, you know, to prepare a dish, you know, and food when I come back home.

So I have always ways of doing this. So yes, you need to have specific ingredients. And if you want, I can give you, [00:29:00] uh, maybe like four things that I have in my pantry that, I can add, you know, on, Okay. You know, I could be on a simple dish. It could be on a salad. It could be on. On eggs. You know, And fish.

And I turn that dish. So think about like. A recipe that you will. You would do for yourself. Like the one that you know, But then you want to maybe. Integrate like one element that is going to bring the dish to a Different space, you know, uh, into different influence. So there is, I don't know if you. Um, you know, there's, um, there's a combo of spice that call from the Middle East.

That's called Zatar, probably you've heard about it.

Uh, it's Z A apostrophe A T A R. It's in fact, it's a blend of, uh, you know, herbs and, uh, there's, um, you know, a little bit of nutty character, a little bit of crunchiness because there's sesame seeds, so you need to like sesame, otherwise that's an issue.

Uh, you have dry sumac, [00:30:00] you know, as a spice, a little bit of oregano, a little bit of thyme. Um, that for me. I have always and you can find it in any spice shop. Um, I I I use it in a lot of things I I do a salad like a simple salad with some mixed greens, you know, some boiled eggs, um some maybe, um, you know, like uh chicken So on, and I just sprinkle it, you know, on top or, you know, sometimes if I'm make croutons, I will, I will put that with the croutons that I had in the, in the salad.

And it is so aromatic and it's, it's really going to give you kind of a, an introduction to, uh, the taste of the Middle East without. Changing anything else, you know, so that's one thing's very easy for me. Another one that I always have Um, you know on my pantry is a chili crisp Because chili crisps, you know, it's like kind of the buzzword at the moment.

You see it popping up everywhere, [00:31:00] every restaurant do their own version, some shops are making it and the, the, the, the sample hits, you know, and or you can buy it from like in jar. So it's, it's really spicy. So you need to, you need to like spicy, but it's spicy, crunchy. Um, there's a little bit of garlic in there.

Um, you know, and, and, and sometimes there's different influences. You can have like the Chinese influences when it's like red chilies and, uh, Sichuan peppers. And then, or you can have sometime a Mexican version of it when you have more jalapeno or Serrano, uh, habanero peppers. And then again, same thing. I put this, um, it gives like.

Um, the spiciness and as well, the, the crispiness, the, and some crunchiness. So they love the other one is, so that's the second one. The third, third one is salsa matcha salsa matcha, which is coming from Mexico. And it's a Vera Cruz, you know, region origin. And again, it's a little bit off [00:32:00] the, you know, dry Chile with garlic and nuts and, and, um, all of this in is fried.

So it's in oil. Um, and you can drip it in salad, on salads. You can, you know, if, if I do like, um, uh, an egg sandwich, for instance, you know, with, uh, with, um, ham or turkey or, and so on, I will, I will do, uh, like put like a little spoon on it, you know, inside the sandwich. And, um, I love it. And then the last one, which is, I, in fact.

You know, brought it back. I was in Hawaii Not too long ago. I visited my daughter there and then Japan influence is very strong there. So there's an one ingredient called furikake And it's f u r i k a k e and this is toasted sesame seeds with Seaweeds like the nori pieces herbs You know fish flakes and so on [00:33:00] and again I use that on usually a salad when I do a mix side, it doesn't matter what it is.

Um, and, uh, you can put it on, um, omelets, you know, that's very good as well. And then suddenly you have, you know, like the, uh, a little bit of the taste of Japan on your plates. So four different things. One is. You know, like Middle East, Japan, Chinese, Mexican, and then you can play with that and it's just like, so I think for what I would say for people is like, don't be shy to incorporate, you know, those ingredients, even if you don't, you don't have to make a complete Mexican dish or complete.

Middle Eastern dish, you know, don't go that route, you know, do your traditional recipe and start incorporating, incorporating, um, you know, that multicultural aspect with some of those key ingredients that you are going to find a spice store that you are going to find in, uh, you know, [00:34:00] like in a sauce aisle or like, you know, a condiment.

So when you shop, explore those items, you know, or visit ethnic markets, you know, that, uh, you know, it's, it's interesting. So

Roni: yeah, I like that idea a lot because it feels not very, it feels really not stressful, you know, just, just cook the way that you normally cook and maybe mix up the spices a little bit to try something different. You don't have to go, um, trying to figure out how you're going to pair different flavor combinations in a unique way, or that is, you know, original to a certain area in the world.

So that's a really great advice. I like that a lot.

Emmanuel: Yeah. I mean, there's, there's, um, yeah, I think people, some, you know, I see people being, um, uncomfortable or not wanting to try set on, you know, something, you know, what's going to happen. I mean, you know what, maybe you don't like it and then, you know, you try something else. Uh, [00:35:00] but I, I use it. Even when I do, um, like my quiche, for instance, and my mom will absolutely probably hate me for this because, you know, for her, a quiche, and I said it in a book, it's only simple ingredients from, you know, the Lorraine area in France.

And every time I wanted to experiment, even when I was a kid, she was like, no, you cannot, I'm like, come on, mom. So now, sorry, mom, but I'm experimenting with it. And, um, you know, so I. You know, I, I love, for instance, uh, and the idea is not from me, it's from, uh, like a famous baker that I had on the podcast and it's in the book, Antonio Bashore, you know, from Miami.

Um, he's doing like a quiche with using the croissant dough, you know, from as the dough for the quiche. Which you can do it as well, like instead of doing a big quiche, you can do individual ones, you know, you take as well like the, maybe the, the muffin mold, you know, that you can put then a little bit of the croissant dough in each of them and, and then you [00:36:00] put like the, the mix, you know, for the quiche on top, which is very easy.

Um, I do not do the croissant dough. He does like Anthony Bashore, because he's talented. And this is what he does. I just buy the croissant dough at the store. And I will do that, but I will use it and you elevate your quiche so that, you know, that's a simple way of doing it. Um, so it's not multicultural, but yes, if you want, because it's French, you know, originally, but, um, but it's, you know, you can elevate your cooking by just changing one ingredient.

Roni: What's your favorite thing to cook?

Emmanuel: Oh boy. It's like, what's my favorite children, you know, it's like, um, I don't know. What's my favorite thing to cook. Uh, you know what I think, I mean, yeah, that's my go to when I have parties and so on, it's like easy. I can do, uh, you know, vegetable quiche. I can do a quiche with like smoked salmon and salmon and, and go [00:37:00] cheese, you know?

So I experiment a lot and, you know, with that. So I love that. Um, but I think. What I love is to go to the farmer's markets or the fish markets. And then usually I do a ceviche, one ceviche per week. So then that's probably the one, because that's another platform that you can experiment. If you have access to very good, fresh, uh, I know Denver, I mean, Colorado, yes, maybe not, but still, you know, um, that's, you know, you know, fish or seafood.

I love like. Scallop ceviche, for instance. So I buy fresh scallop. I slice them very thin. Um, and then, you know, recently I went in, uh, in Hawaii. And I got, uh, with my daughter and went to a restaurant there and they had a, uh, uh, ceviche with scallops. And the in between each slice of the scallops, they put a slice of Asian pear.

And, uh, and I was like, Hmm, I haven't thought about this. And the combo was so nice that. That's my version now. [00:38:00] So every time I do my ceviche, um, I always buy Asian pear. And, um, you know, I do a ceviche with, uh, you know, different, um, like red, you know, red, uh, onion, um, you know, the Asian pear and, you know, I, I put like different, you know, uh, toppings, but I obviously mix maybe some lime with lemon juice and, um, you know, and.

That's, that's my go to. It's easy to make. It's healthy.

Roni: Yeah, that sounds really yummy. I bet that, um, that like sour and sweet flavor together is really wonderful

Emmanuel: Yeah. And then if, when it fits in the summer, then you can, um, you know, then I buy, uh, basil leaves and then I put them into like in a small blender. So I make it such a little, you know, a little sauce, liquid sauce that I put a little bit of olive oil with, and then, you know, lemon and pepper. And then you can put a little bit of drops on [00:39:00] like the scallop ceviche is yummy.

Roni: I'm getting hungry. Okay. Is, I'm really curious. Is there any food that you will only eat in France because it's just not the same anywhere else or maybe specifically not the same United States?

Emmanuel: I think that's, you know, it's a good question. In fact, I think. Quality of the food has evolved a lot in 21 years, you know, uh, that I'm here, um, because of those influences that we talked and access to maybe people pay more attention, you know, chefs like on the ingredients and so on. But I had a hard time when I arrive is.

Um to find like good bread,

Roni: Hmm.

Emmanuel: so which is not the case anymore You you have like good bread, especially where I live and not too far from you know, the city from new york city so Um, and when I travel I always find like good bakers There's a culture now of of course the sourdough exploded, you know as we know during Um, you know the pandemic So people are [00:40:00] more connected to the art of making bread.

Um, so the quality of bread have changed a lot in 20, 20 years, you know, in the country. But at the beginning, for me, that was like difficult. Or croissant, you know, which is really specific, you know, you can find croissant. But before that, it was, you know, they were not crisp, you know, it needs, they need to be like really the contrast of the The, the crispiness on the outside and then the moist, you know, aspect on the inside.

So, you know, sorry, that's my French DNA. That's comes back, 

Roni: I was, I was kind of expecting it to be related to carbohydrates.

Emmanuel: yeah, that's, and, and, and the other one was cheese, you know, again. Um, that has changed a lot. Now you can find a lot of good, um, like farmer cheese, like in Vermont or in California. And you know, that's, that's fantastic. And I'm sure, sorry for other people listening that maybe I'm sure there's fantastic cheeses, you know, around the country, but, um, you know, it was hard for me when I, you know, I love cheese [00:41:00] and, um, the variety of cheese in France is, you know, it's, it's really.

Huge compared to what I could find here. So I have I have a story. In fact, when I arrive, and I hope there's no one from Wisconsin listening. But when I arrive, um, it was a long time ago. It was at the 80s. In fact, that I came to Wisconsin for the in the US for the first time. My colleagues there, they welcome me.

Of course, because I was coming from France, the first weekend, they said, Ah, we have to bring you to a farm and with a cheese store there. So, I'm like, sure, you know, so we are there with them at the farm. And of course, when we arrived, the woman that was behind the counter, so she has different, sorry, I want to say a brick of cheese with different colors, you know, orange and like cheddar and, you know, and I'm like, oh, okay.

And then. They were like, he's from France. So he has this culture. So she was really excited and she went to the back [00:42:00] and she came back with like another brick of cheese. That was very, very dark. And it was like a very old. Uh, age, you know, cheddar, and I was very polite. I said that I love that cheese. So, but the change, the things have changed now.

There's this fantastic, you know, um, cheese. I'm so sorry. I'm just listening to just what I said. You lost like half of your audience now.

Roni: Well, it's funny because I was going to say, well, didn't you first come to Wisconsin? But it's a, I'm sure it's a different style of cheese than what you're used to. Yeah.

Emmanuel: mean, now, you know, I eat cheddar as well now, you know, after 20 years I got to it.

Roni: It's funny. Okay. Well, um, before we go, why don't you tell everybody where they can connect with you, find your book, listen to your podcast, all that

Emmanuel: Maybe they don't want now.

Roni: I don't think

so. I bet they 

Emmanuel: you know, you know, very open to any [00:43:00] type of food. So, um, yeah, my podcast is Flavors Unknown. So Flavors, Flavors Plural. Unknown. Um, they can find it in any, uh, podcast platform. I publish every other week because, you know, I, I cannot do every week. It's a bit too much for my day job.

Um, and I am, I just published episode 148. Um, and then, um, they can see. See, you know, all the information on my website. It's called flavors unknown. com. Uh, there's like the, all the episodes and information on the book. So the book it's called conversations behind the kitchen door. And the forward was written by chef Elizabeth Faulkner is a good friend of mine.

And, um, yes, there's about. More than 50. The subtitle said, you know, 50 American chef, uh, chart today's food culture, but there's a bit more of a 50 chefs there. And I tried to make that book interactive. So there's a lot of QR codes where they can go back to the [00:44:00] episodes. If there's, they like what the. Read about the chef and, you know, and, but the, the book is definitely not, um, the content of the podcast.

It's much more conversations, um, you know, and experience and all the learnings, uh, you know, from any conversation I had with chefs here in the U S. They can follow me on Instagram at again, flavors unknown. And that's the Instagram and Facebook as well.

Roni: Perfect. 

Emmanuel: But thank you very much for, uh, inviting me to, uh, join your show.

I really appreciate it.

Roni: yeah, no, thank you for joining me. It's been a wonderful conversation and I'll make sure that we linked all your things in the show notes so that people can easily

Emmanuel: Thank you. 

Thank 

you very much. Bye bye.

Roni: Thank you for tuning in to this episode. There will be links in the show notes to Emmanuel's podcast, his book, as well as his social media channels so that you can connect with him and listen to his wonderful podcast. And if you'd like to support the planty podcast, please subscribe wherever you [00:45:00] get your podcasts 

and leave us a review in apple podcasts and Spotify. I will see you again in two weeks with another episode and thank you for listening.